Tuesday March 13th, 2018
CE / Exams: Teleconference call
Routine Call. Same issues of timeline.
Wednesday March 14th, 2018
Additional Entity Division II –
Wednesday March 14th, 2018
Application Review Division II –
Thursday March 15th, 2018
Probation Division II –
Thursday March 15th, 2018
Division I Probation Committee
Thursday March 15th, 2018
Additional Business Entities Committee – Division I:
Nothing Unusual but the usual: Proven experience, Supervision, control, W-2 or Ownership.
As with past observations, the Board consistently and uniformly applies the criteria established in 61G4-15.0024: The board continues their request for live CE for laws and rules for mistakes such as the ownership/ W-2 Employee or payment as commission.
Also to be noted: The non-rule of “qualifier must appear when applying to qualify a 3rd entity, regardless of ownership interest” is in full effect and being enforced.
- The qualifier owns 20% or more of the additional entity to be quailed
- The Qualifier is a W-2 Employee of the additional entity to be qualified.
- As the board continues issuing the license contingent upon showing the proof of W-2
- We believe that this issue will come up again and they might go back to asking for paystubs instead of just the W-4
- Or both (better yet).
- If the qualifier owns 50% or more of TWO entities, the application can be approved by DBPR staff and bypass the committee meeting altogether. BUT, If it is for a THIRD Entity, the applicant will have to appear before the committee regardless of any other factors.*
*The committee is still holding to their new policy regarding how 61G4-15.021 (5) is being interpreted. This rule is commonly called the 50/50 rule in which an applicant who owns more than 50% of both entities is allowed to bypass the requirement to appear before the board. That interpretation has changed so that this bypass only applies where the applicant is seeking to qualifying a 2nd entity. The board now requires that applicants must appear when seeking to qualify a 3rd, 4th or greater number of entities. This is regardless of how great of a percentage of ownership of any of the entities. This change was requested by board members at the end of the November General Session and evidently became effective with the January 2017 meeting.
- Whenever the qualifier, has applied for this additional entity with less than 20% stake, and don’t have an FRO, the board asks the qualifier to “voluntarily” accept taking 7 hours of live classroom CE on Construction Laws & Rules. This is especially true when the qualifier changes his stand during the session and hearing to the requirements and wants to amend the application.
- In most cases these license holders have either forgotten or someone else filled the application for them.
- They forgot about the requirements.
- They don’t have Financial control nor have thy appointed a FRO.
- Stock certificates & ownership can be given to the proposed qualifier at no cost. The important thing is that this stock has value. This means that if the qualifier leaves this additional company, the owner must purchase the stock back. There can be no stipulation that the stock must be given back to the owner at no charge.
Thursday March 15th, 2018
Application Review Committee – Division I:
- Nothing out of regular.
Past observations were:
- Endorsement applications from the State of California continue to be accepted; there was one case of a California Licensee seeking Florida Licensure by endorsement, there was no resistance. (Note: he had already passed the Florida B&F exam). This endorsement applies only to General, Building & Residential Contractor categories.
- In light of the new rule, the committee in general seems more open to consider a broader range of experience as acceptable for active & proven experience. “Habitable” and “New” construction does not seem to be as big of an issue as it was before
- Applicant has been W2 Employee of a licensed contractor – not a sub. * there has been a little movement on this requirement and starting with the July 2016 meeting the board will consider experience gained by a sub who was directly supervised by a GC who was controlling the means and methods of construction, such as a Shell Contractor with a GC who owns & qualifies the company.
- Control of means & methods of construction – hire fire authority or at least controlling subs
- Was involved in the construction of a building from ground up on new construction or MAJOR demo / remodels (but still has to meet at least 4 of the 7 structural experience categories listed in 61G4-15.001 (2)
- At least 1 year field experience: boots on the ground & hard hat on the head. Not all in the office. Not necessarily to construct with your own hands but out in the field controlling what is being done, checking measurements, progress checks, etc. Controlling the means & methods of construction.
Friday March 16th, 2018
CILB Rules Committee 8:30am
The meeting was called to order by The Chair, turned the meeting over to CILB Counsel, Rachel, the following rules being tracked:
61G4-12.008 – Time Compliance with Final Orders*. The strikeout of language concerning minimum net worth is to get this rule in sync with the repeal of the Net Worth requirement many years ago, it was evidently overlooked. Also, language has been added to clarify that:
– if a probationer receives an unsatisfactory appearance, the term of the probation is increased by 6 months.
– if a probationer receives 3 unsatisfactory appearances, the stay is lifted, the license gets suspended until such time as the probation term expires, plus the addition of any 6 month extensions for previous unsatisfactory appearances.
-Upon the 3rd unsatisfactory appearance the license does not get revoked. It is just suspended. Then this licensee must appear before the board to get the license activated again when the probation term expires.
-The probationer has an option take a 7-hour “Business Practices” Financial Course in lieu of receiving one unsatisfactory appearance, at the board’s discretion.
This language was approved in November and is moving along in the adoption process.
61G4-15.032 -Certification of Swimming Pool Contractors –Rachel found some pre-existing language in the rule that still mentions the candidate providing proof of experience by affidavit. This amendment will strike that language as it has long ago been removed as a requirements. There was a motion to strike out the language, a second and it was approved by the board.
61G4-18.001 Continuing Education Requirements – JAPC required that regarding the Specialized Wind Mitigation Training, the FBC be incorporated by reference.
This language was approved in November and is moving along in the adoption process. Notice Published in March – 7
New 61G4-12.007 Board Agenda Materials
The language was approved by the board
Applications will be forwarded to the Board office for placement on an electronic agenda for distribution to the Board members after the application is deemed complete or when the applicant informs the Department of their request to proceed “as is” without satisfying an application deficiency, in accordance with section 120.60 Florida Statutes. Materials amending a completed application or other proposed agenda materials submitted less than 21 days prior to a Board Meeting will not be included and will not be distributed to board members except as outlined below. The Board delegates authority to the Board Chair in consultation with Board Counsel to determine when an exception is warranted in order to comply with legal requirements, including fairness to all parties or to the public. The Chairperson presiding over each board meeting session will determine whether or not to accept materials offered during the respective session.
Rulemaking Authority 120.525, 120.57(2), F.S. Law Implemented 120.525, 120.57(2), F.S. History–New __________.
There was a brief discussion about violation of this rule, if it should be considered as “minor violation”. After some debate, and Ms. Rachel’s intervention, they all decided that there would be no violation if someone submitted the documents after the deadline. They would be tabled for review for the next meeting.
That concluded the Rules Committee agenda and meeting. Adjourned
Friday March 16th, 2018
CILB General Session Meeting – 9:00am all Board members: both divisions.
The meeting was called to order at 8:30am by chair, Richard Kane. Richard turned the meeting over to Dan Biggins for the Executive Director’s Report.
Executive Directors Report:
Dan welcomed the new board members.
- Donald Cesarone – Pool Contractor
- Edward McCullers – Plumbing Contractor
- Brian Donovan – Consumer Member
- Scott Thomason – Moved to Air-conditioning from building official.
Still two vacancies.
He mentioned about the training in April for how to read the FBI criminal records. Due to this training they moved the Recovery Board meeting one week prior to the board meeting and made it telephonic.
All agenda’s will be distributed in electronic format to all the board members.
That concluded the executive Directors Report
Welcomed the new board members.
That concluded the Chairman’s Report
Prosecuting Attorney Report:
Ian Brown reported that there were 122 cases, 68 probable and 40 probable cause complaints. Total cases 822.
He thanked the board for the continued support, appreciated his deputies, and expects the increase in his team by some who are taking the board exams.
That concluded the Prosecuting Attorney’s report.
Attorney General Report: The meeting was turned over to Rachel Clark the CILB Counsel:
There were 6 hearings and 3 Petition for Declaratory Statement.
There were 3 requests for a Declaratory Statement
TAB D Patrick Hubbard. Granted the standing, but declined to make a statement.
This was from the building department with reference to contractors according to FS 489 being able to design and sign their own drawings for screen building.
There was lengthy discussion, Joe Belcher was present to explain how this statute came in place. Reference was even made about Senator Dudley. Everyone agreed that the statute was clear in its explanation and declined to make a statement.
TAB E John Mangel, Granted the Standing, Declined for being absent and that the statute was clear that one needed a subcontractor according to 489.103(7)
This was from one of the consumer who had rental property. He wanted to do the roof under the governors hurricane emergency exemptions. The Board felt that it was way beyond the 90 day period where the governor’s exemption is valid.
Tab G: Miller Brian. Granted the Standing, but declined to make a statement.
This was for pool contractors and in continuation with his previous request for declaratory statement and what they can do and can’t do. The previous one was in July of 2017.
- installing or replacing the wiring between the pool equipment and the local pool circuit breaker panel;
- installing or replacing the circuit breaker protecting said pool equipment; and
- installing and wiring an electrical piece of pool related equipment such as an automated control system, solar controller, timeclock, or any other piece of pool equipment that requires electrical wiring.
There was extensive discussion on this. Past board member Mr. Lenois also gave his opinion that, when the rule was developed there was no intent of allowing pool contractors to do electrical wiring.
The board concluded that that the rule and law was clear in it’s writing and interpretation. The board also suggested that people should start taking CE classes which will clarify the rule and explain what can be done and what can’t be. The board declined to make the statement.
That concluded the Attorney General’s Report
- Education Committee: Nothing out of normal.
- Rules/ Legislative All rules approved and/ moving through the process.
- Recovery Fund $204,088
Old Business: None
- Chair was concerned with some of the people coming and trying to speak even when it is not needed. This was about Mike Holt who wanted to make his statement.
- Chair wanted to know if there could be sign-in sheet for all those who wanted to speak.
- The BET chief Andy and his special officer Alex were present in the meeting
- They once again came back with the review of the NASCLA tests and confirmed that the test is equivalent with the Florida test.
- They announced that starting August 1st except plumbing all the tests would be computer based.
- They said that the time will be reduced from 4:45 to 3:30
- Several board members were not happy with the reduction in time.
- They even asked if they could stop the reduction and Andy said the ship has left the dock and that there is nothing that can be done. There is substantial saving by moving the tests to computer based testing.
- Starting August only the plumbing shall be paper and pencil and that it would be offered only in Orlando.
- Board wants some commitment from the other states that they will also endorse the Florida exam and allow Florida contractors be able to get their license in those respective states.
- The board requested the BET To have the NASCLA representatives be present, before they decide. That concluded the meeting